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Old 02-27-2017, 02:28 PM   #1
Jeremy M.
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Default NEW Single Shot Trust

New and convenient Silencer Shop Single Shot Trust available exclusively through our Powered By network of dealers. A versatile alternative to the traditional NFA Gun Trust, this option simplifies the suppressor purchase process even more and takes the headache out of the ownership experience.

Removing several of the cumbersome steps involved with the typical NFA trust setup (e.g., notary, state filing, etc.), our Single Shot Trust arrangement streamlines the process in many ways. Essentially, Silencer Shop is turning the traditional trust on its head! Instead of buying a [more expensive] trust and adding silencers to it as you go, the Single Shot Trust is meant to go along with your silencer purchase and be used only for that single item.

No more gathering up all your trustees, taking a trip to the notary, scanning everyone's prints, emailing/faxing the trust back to us, and so forth… All you need to do is digitally sign the document and we will send it to the ATF on your behalf. This simple setup allows you to add trustees and responsible parties after you receive approval, to take advantage of the long-term benefits offered by registering as a trust without the hassles of initial set up.




RUNDOWN

Some of the benefits to this trust include:

•Priced at $24.95, the Single Shot Trust is less burdensome on your bank account
•Offered for $129.95, the Single Shot Unlimited Trust option is designed for devoted users.
•One-time purchase brings completion to suppressor ownership process
Elimination of time-consuming steps streamlines processing (no notary, state filing, etc.)
•Ability for responsible persons/trustees to be added down the road affords flexibility
•Automated system allows for quick purchase/submission of trust
•Trust conveniently named for each NFA item purchased (e.g., “Q El Camino SN:0187 Trust”)
◦The trust will only ever contain that one serial number
Digitally sign (i.e., DocuSign) Form 4 and be done in less than 30 seconds
•Form 4 reviewed and submitted to ATF by Silencer Shop’s expert staff
•The purchaser (you) will be the initial "Trust Maker" and sole "Trustee" at the time of signing
•Listing a beneficiary is not necessary, it will be the heir named in your will, or, if you don't have a will, the beneficiary will be the person(s) who would inherit from you under state law
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:47 PM   #2
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So how long until this turns into a "buy item and trust" option with no wait time involved...

Loopholes are fun and all but I think this is what 41F was trying to get away from (although 41F is still stupid).
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Old 02-27-2017, 05:30 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by propeine View Post
So how long until this turns into a "buy item and trust" option with no wait time involved...

Loopholes are fun and all but I think this is what 41F was trying to get away from (although 41F is still stupid).
i think trusts still offer a level of insulation that certain parties are becoming more comfortable with these days.
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Old 02-27-2017, 07:22 PM   #4
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This could be the nail in the coffin for the NFA trust. Hope I'm wrong.
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:15 PM   #5
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So how long until this turns into a "buy item and trust" option with no wait time involved...

Loopholes are fun and all but I think this is what 41F was trying to get away from (although 41F is still stupid).

This is the one I've been waiting for. As long as the original trustee can resign and a point another, it should work. Let silencer shop do the waiting for you. I imagine you could even mail it directly to the new trustee. It would be worth some extra cash to not have to wait.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:04 PM   #6
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This is the one I've been waiting for. As long as the original trustee can resign and a point another, it should work. Let silencer shop do the waiting for you. I imagine you could even mail it directly to the new trustee. It would be worth some extra cash to not have to wait.
Which is EXACTLY what the gun grabbers will use for headlines! People are buying these hugely dangerous mufflers with NO BACKGROUND CHECKS OH THE HUMANITY. Sorry this plays right into their hands. Stupid IMO.
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:09 PM   #7
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This is the one I've been waiting for. As long as the original trustee can resign and a point another, it should work. Let silencer shop do the waiting for you. I imagine you could even mail it directly to the new trustee. It would be worth some extra cash to not have to wait.
Most, if not all states have laws that prevent a trust from being perpetual. When the grantor dies, the holdings are dispersed to the beneficiaries and the trust is dissolved. Think of a trustee as the manager of the property, not the owner. For this reason, I don't think a trust could achieve what you are thinking.
A corporation on the other hand could. Corporate entities are bought and sold all the time. The ownership of the holdings is with the company, not it's officers. But in this context, a corporation would likely be too cumbersome a vehicle to own a single silencer and theoretically achieve "no wait". Most states have annual fees for incorporation that would make this impractical.
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by propeine View Post
So how long until this turns into a "buy item and trust" option with no wait time involved...

Loopholes are fun and all but I think this is what 41F was trying to get away from (although 41F is still stupid).
Well then, enjoy the irony.

This exists solely because of the burden 41F placed on legal entities.

This could have been the status quo before 41F, but it was not worth the hassle then.

FATF.
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:11 AM   #9
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Most, if not all states have laws that prevent a trust from being perpetual. When the grantor dies, the holdings are dispersed to the beneficiaries and the trust is dissolved. Think of a trustee as the manager of the property, not the owner. For this reason, I don't think a trust could achieve what you are thinking.
A corporation on the other hand could. Corporate entities are bought and sold all the time. The ownership of the holdings is with the company, not it's officers. But in this context, a corporation would likely be too cumbersome a vehicle to own a single silencer and theoretically achieve "no wait". Most states have annual fees for incorporation that would make this impractical.
These are mostly revocable living trusts. There are other types. Perpetual trusts, dynasty trusts, and a few others are designed to last forever, passing control from one person to another, only terminating when they are no longer needed. Dynasty trusts can change hands an infinite amount of times, allowing the beneficiary to name successor beneficiaries, and when the successor beneficiaries become the beneficiaries they can name new successors and so on. These types of trusts generally terminate whenever the money is gone, but they can be adjusted in some cases to terminate when property (Usually real estate or heirlooms, but could be a suppressor) is sold, lost, or otherwise removed from the trust's control.
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:46 AM   #10
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:15 AM   #11
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These are mostly revocable living trusts. There are other types. Perpetual trusts, dynasty trusts, and a few others are designed to last forever, passing control from one person to another, only terminating when they are no longer needed. Dynasty trusts can change hands an infinite amount of times, allowing the beneficiary to name successor beneficiaries, and when the successor beneficiaries become the beneficiaries they can name new successors and so on. These types of trusts generally terminate whenever the money is gone, but they can be adjusted in some cases to terminate when property (Usually real estate or heirlooms, but could be a suppressor) is sold, lost, or otherwise removed from the trust's control.
I inquired of a lawyer about that. In SC, he said you can't have a perpetual trust, it has to have an end point. Other states may allow it, or maybe I just didn't have enough money to make it interesting enough for him.
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:39 AM   #12
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So from the way I read this is it's a trust for a single item that after the item has been approved can have trustees added. So the only issue would be is if I bring 5 of my toys out to play I need to bring 5 trusts and 5 stamps along with me instead of a single trust (that has all of my items on it) and 5 approved form 1/4's? It's a work around all the fingerprinting, pictures, notifying LEO etc for the trustees just annoying to have to worry about even more paperwork. I never leave the house with just one stamp.
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:38 PM   #13
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You don't have to take your trust with you. You only need a copy of the approved form 4. However this trust is small enough that if you print it 4 to a page and double sided then it is only two pages.
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:47 PM   #14
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You don't have to take your trust with you. You only need a copy of the approved form 4. However this trust is small enough that if you print it 4 to a page and double sided then it is only two pages.
If I bought one of your full prices trusts before, do I qualify for the unlimited mini trusts?
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:02 PM   #15
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On a separate but related topic... has anyone here actually be challenged to show their papers by RSO, LEO or ATF? Not discussing who has the authority to ask for them, just if they've been asked for.
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:05 PM   #16
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On a separate but related topic... has anyone here actually be challenged to show their papers by RSO, LEO or ATF? Not discussing who has the authority to ask for them, just if they've been asked for.
Not here. Honestly, I keep PDF copies saved in my email and on my phone, and if those aren't good enough for whoever's asking they're welcome to accompany me to my home to see the originals. Don't see how a PDF is any different than copy that i would be carrying anyway.
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:29 PM   #17
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That's what I do too, just keep PDF on my phone. After all, the ATF sends me PDF Forms, should be good enough for anyone else. Though I've never been asked to show them.
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:33 PM   #18
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If I bought one of your full prices trusts before, do I qualify for the unlimited mini trusts?
Unfortunately no. They are created by two different lawyers with two different purposes.
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:52 PM   #19
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I've always been told you should keep a copy of the trust with you and your approved form 1/4. The approved form 1/4 has the trust name but without the trust to prove who is a trustee anyone could simply say they are on the trust hence why keeping a copy of the trust with you.

I was asked by a new guy at the shop I buy all my toys from to see my form 4 when I went in to shoot. The guys that knew me stopped him but they do ask to see peoples approved forms if they don't know you. You'd be surprised how many idiots throw a stock on a pistol and have no clue about the NFA and when asked to see there forms they give them a dumb look and ask what they are talking about. You don't have to show them of course but they don't have to let you shoot. They do it to cover there ass. It's an unfortunate world we live in that they are afraid if they let someone make a wrong choice that it could affect their business (weather the ATF would ever go that far who knows).

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You don't have to take your trust with you. You only need a copy of the approved form 4. However this trust is small enough that if you print it 4 to a page and double sided then it is only two pages.
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:17 PM   #20
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On a separate but related topic... has anyone here actually be challenged to show their papers by RSO, LEO or ATF? Not discussing who has the authority to ask for them, just if they've been asked for.
Never. I have 1/4 sheet sized laminated copies of all of my stamps in my range bag, but I think if you are competent and don't draw attention nobody bothers you. Also goes to show how little crime involves class 3 items; they just assume that you're the legal owner and have all of your stuff together.
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