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Old 08-16-2017, 08:00 AM   #1
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Default Octane 45 and 7.62x25 Tokarev

Will an Octane 45 handle a 7.62x25 Tokarev? Average velocity shooting a 110 gr bullet is about 1300 fps.
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Old 08-16-2017, 01:54 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by batman4706 View Post
Will an Octane 45 handle a 7.62x25 Tokarev? Average velocity shooting a 110 gr bullet is about 1300 fps.
It is rated for subsonic Blackout but not supersonic and this would seem to fall under the latter. Others here are far more knowledgeable about the pressure generated for different rounds, but at first glance it seems the answer is no.
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Old 08-16-2017, 03:02 PM   #3
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FWIW, The SAAMI equivalent chamber pressure limit of 7.62x25 is ~37kpsi, and 9x19 is 35kpsi, and 9x19 +P is ~38.5kpsi. So the Tok round falls between those. I'd ask SiCo if they're rated for 9mm +P, and go from there.

The Tok isn't exactly a high volume cartridge producing a lot of gas either. If I had a threaded Tok, I'd personally have no issue shooting it through my Octane, but that's just me, and my can. If something happened to it I wouldn't expect SiCo to warranty it, although they probably would anyway.


What gun do you have in mind? A CZ-52, PPS-41 or other?
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Old 08-16-2017, 03:17 PM   #4
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FWIW, The SAAMI equivalent chamber pressure limit of 7.62x25 is ~37kpsi, and 9x19 is 35kpsi, and 9x19 +P is ~38.5kpsi. So the Tok round falls between those. I'd ask SiCo if they're rated for 9mm +P, and go from there.

The Tok isn't exactly a high volume cartridge producing a lot of gas either. If I had a threaded Tok, I'd personally have no issue shooting it through my Octane, but that's just me, and my can. If something happened to it I wouldn't expect SiCo to warranty it, although they probably would anyway.


What gun do you have in mind? A CZ-52, PPS-41 or other?
I knew someone would have the exact numbers for this; out of curiosity, what is the pressure for Blackout both super and subsonic? Does bullet weight have any bearing on suppressor capability? Not sure if a lighter weight round generates a bigger shock wave as it breaks the sound barrier, which causes stress on the baffles, or if it's negligible given that the projectile is roughly the same size.
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Old 08-16-2017, 04:51 PM   #5
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I don't know anything about the bullet weight, it was my impression that pressure and gas volume are the biggest factors in rating a can.

.300BO SAAMI pressure limit is 55kpsi, so that'd be the supersonic loads. Doing a little googling on the subsonic chamber pressures, I found values ranging from 21kpsi up to 35kpsi. That's going to vary by what bullet weights and powders are used in the load.
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Old 08-16-2017, 04:53 PM   #6
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According to the infallible information on Wikipedia, 300blk SAAMI max pressure is 55kpsi.

I believe it has more to do with muzzle pressure than anything else.
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:34 PM   #7
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I believe it has more to do with muzzle pressure than anything else.
Yup, and that's why you'll see manufacturer's specify a minimum barrel length for given suppressors. As the barrel length increases, the system volume increases and pressure decreases. As long as the mfr doesn't specify a barrel length, you can just use the chamber pressures as a relative and proportional guideline.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:01 PM   #8
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Something I find odd is a lot of manufacturers say their cans are rated for supersonic 357 and 44 magnum, but not 300blk. 357 has very similar case capacity and bullet velocity, and 44 magnum has more case capacity.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Fulliautomatix View Post
Yup, and that's why you'll see manufacturer's specify a minimum barrel length for given suppressors. As the barrel length increases, the system volume increases and pressure decreases. As long as the mfr doesn't specify a barrel length, you can just use the chamber pressures as a relative and proportional guideline.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by owensww View Post
Something I find odd is a lot of manufacturers say their cans are rated for supersonic 357 and 44 magnum, but not 300blk. 357 has very similar case capacity and bullet velocity, and 44 magnum has more case capacity.
The burn rate of the powder can make a huge difference in muzzle pressure.

Generally, straight walled cartridges have shorter burn times than tapered ones (excluding shotguns). This makes them better suited for suppressors and / or shorter barrels. 300blk uses the same case as 5.56/223 but there's a faster, less restricted burn through the 30cal hole. 300blk peaks at about 9 inches. How much lost velocity and energy is lost in the fireball from a 9 inch 5.56?

For this reason I would be looking to compare to something more like the 357Sig for a comparable muzzle pressure. 357Sig is SAAMI 40kpsi with a presumably higher muzzle pressure due to the restriction.
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:28 AM   #11
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Quickload Data follows for 4" Barrel with loads I found on the interwebs

7.62x25
Hornady 110gr
6.5gr AA5
VMax = 1205fps
Pmax = 33,668
PMuzzle = 9341

9mm
Hornady 124gr
Hogdon Titegroup
VMuzzle = 1069fps
Pmax = 34,296
PMuzzle = 3,487

9mm
Hornady 147gr
5.2gr AA5
Vmuzzle = 1025 fps
PMax = 33,747
PMuzzle = 4,648

300 Blackout w/9in barrel
Hornady 208 Amax
12gr AA1680
VMuzzle = 1067 fps
PMax = 22,915
PMuzzle = 5107

357 Sig
124gr FP
6.0gr Titegroup
Vmax = 1224 FPS
PMax = 39,970
PMuzzle = 5,291

357 Magnum on the other hand well...with a stubby barrel you're well over even the Tok with a 124 @1400fps. Muzzle pressure is 14ksi. I would suspect they have barrel limitations.

I think you better make a phone call as you're doubling the muzzle pressure of those approved rounds.

The 9mm has a better expansion ratio due to the bore diameter whereas the 300blk starts and stays at relatively low pressure. Why not load up some Tok subs?
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Last edited by propeine; 08-17-2017 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 08-18-2017, 08:16 AM   #12
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Default Tok subs

So far with my tests accuracy tends to drop once you get below about 1200 fps. It's being shot in a 10.5 AR15 . I'm currently using a Hybrid I have on it, the Octane would be smaller and lighter.
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Old 08-18-2017, 08:48 AM   #13
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You've got a 10.5" 7.62x25 upper? Neato! Who makes that and what magazines are you using to feed it?
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:50 AM   #14
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Default 10.5 Tok

Rudy at Macon Armory makes them, they use a PPSH 43 magazine. No recoil at all.
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:51 AM   #15
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Nice, it is a dedicated lower, or a just a mag block in a standard AR well? Blow-back or DI?
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Old 08-20-2017, 10:39 AM   #16
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Default Tok Sbr

It uses a mag block built by Rudy, it's a DI.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batman4706 View Post
Rudy at Macon Armory makes them, they use a PPSH 43 magazine. No recoil at all.
It's not on his website. I's that a custom setup, discontinued, or just off the menu.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:59 AM   #18
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Default Tok at Macon Armory

It's just not on there yet. He has been making the magwell adapters one at a time, but is working on a CNC program for them. Best way to find out more is to give Rudy a call, he's a great guy to talk to. A couple of friends and I made a trip out there to visit him a few months ago and had a great time. I wasn't planning on buying anything on that trip, but when I shot the Tok I had to have one.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:33 AM   #19
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Rudy, Rudy, Rudy...
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:01 PM   #20
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Default Octane 45 okay with Tok

Checked with Silencerco, they said the Octane will do fine with the Tok, saved email.

Now to compare the Octane with the Hybrid.
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